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Phy
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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2004 05:33:33 pm    Post subject: Mug vs. Phy: Follow the bouncing ball Reply with quote

IronMug does not approve of the way I think.

I get these little sermons from time-to-time talking about the way I handle myself and the way I think and approach things. We do the back-and-forth until he gives up in disgust because he can't control my thinking process remotely. (Revelation: my wife isn't able to accomplish that, either.)

Recently, this has manifested itself as disapproval of my stance politically, the way I represent myself. Shrug. I am a Popeyeist - I yam what I yam. No, I am a cauliflowerist, white and rough around the edges and covered in cheese.

I thought that our dialogue had run its course, but now It seems I'm being called out. There is a tacit threat to in a PM I received this morning, something that activates my trick knee.

My bits have had to be pulled out from Mug's replies - I didn't save my side of the conversation as I did not divine the ultimate intent of this dialogue.

The long and short of this thread is simple - Mug comes at things from a position that is more liberal than I, and I come at things from a position more conservative than he. I consider myself a Centrist that leans to the right. He considers himself a "pure" Centrist and is "deeply troubled" that I would sully the Centrist designation. I consider this whole line of discussion silly. Perhaps politics assumes elevated significance if you have no faith, becoming the new defacto religion. Lord knows he's approaching this with the single-minded passion of a zealot.

At any rate, I should mention that I have nothing personal against Mug - we've been on the opposite side of things for longer than this community has existed, and this is merely the latest salvo. I'm never the initiator but I don't back down from a conflict if you're bringing it to my door.

I've said enough. Read the thread, or don't - it makes no difference to me. All I know is that this thread will not be held over my head - I didn't start it and I certainly don't care if people know where we shake out; anybody who's been following along already knows who we are and what we believe.


Johne (Phy) Cook | Overlord, Ray Gun Revival
Phy
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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2004 05:33:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
From: {=TLA=}IronMug
To: Phy
Posted: 26 Jul 2004 05:56:38 pm
Subject: Just words eh? Quote message
I'm troubled by your posts on a continual basis.

You claim that you are a centrist yet you post only articles from the point of view of the right, conservatives, and republicans. You never post anything from the left except to tear it apart.

This brings up the word *disengenuous* that you use on a consistent basis. If you are going to "claim" to be a centrist than start acting like one and post all sides of a story, all views, not the angled "right" agenda that is your sole force of expression.

Of course you can post as you like but I'm all about integrity and you just don't have it. A centrist you are not.

I feel I can say these things because I truly am a centrist. I read and watch all views and make a contextual oppinion based on all of the information not just a focused (missed in the full context) moment. I am registered as an independent and I truly descern information from both sides. My views align more closely with the left but I do not unconditionally support Democrats or "Liberals" like you unconditionally support conservatives and republicans.

That's another thing, liberals are beautiful people who want equality and a host of things that republicans claim to be about. It is also a word that you and your constituents abuse to the point of redefinition as a "bad word". This is shameless politics and I'm quite sick of it.

In any event, if you want to be seen as a centrist, start acting like one.


Johne (Phy) Cook | Overlord, Ray Gun Revival


Last edited by Phy on 29 Jul 2004 05:38:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
Phy
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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2004 05:38:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
{=TLA=}IronMug wrote:
I'm troubled by your posts on a continual basis.



That's funny - I don't care a bit what you post.

The liberals used to be people that I understood but Zell Miller has it right - the Democratic party (in particular) isn't the same as it was even 10 - 12 years ago. He gave the keynote address in 1992 in New York for the DNC. He'll be giving an address in New York for the RNC this year. He feels that he hasn't changed, just the parties around him.

Granted the Republicans have changed, too. But all that means to me is that the Dems have veered left and the Reps have veered right, leaving an ever bigger chasm in the center.

As for me, politics is what I talk about only when I have to, to keep fringe radicals on the left from taking over in a form of self-fulfilling prophecy. I'd rather do almost anything else, but these young minds here are too impressionable to leave alone without some degree of balance. I don't care if they embrace my way of thinking as long as they are exposed to it. I'll leave actual wisdom up to God.

I'll continue to think of myself as a Centrist, thank-you-very-much. That I'm right of you rather comforts me.


Johne (Phy) Cook | Overlord, Ray Gun Revival
Phy
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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2004 05:44:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Okay, I'll just ask this, if you are a centrist and your audience is impressionable, does posting only "right" positions skew their perception of what the middle really is about, that it includes views from the left and the right? Will they understand slightly left as extreme left and extreme right as slightly right? Where does the inundation of material really peak, the right or the left, meaning are you adding to an already disproportionately "right" pile or are you evening the stack?

To answer your question as to why I choose to fry this fish, it is my belief that the shaping of young minds should be accomplished by the young minds themselves requiring them to be exposed to both or all sides of an issue, not just one. It is dangerous politics to feed a baby only meat when potatoes are also required. It is afterall, a democratic republic, is it not?


Johne (Phy) Cook | Overlord, Ray Gun Revival
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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2004 05:47:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phy wrote:
Quote:
Okay, I'll just ask this, if you are a centrist and your audience is impressionable, does posting only "right" positions skew their perception of what the middle really is about, that it includes views from the left and the right? Will they understand slightly left as extreme left and extreme right as slightly right? Where does the inundation of material really peak, the right or the left, meaning are you adding to an already disproportionately "right" pile or are you evening the stack?

To answer your question as to why I choose to fry this fish, it is my belief that the shaping of young minds should be accomplished by the young minds themselves requiring them to be exposed to both or all sides of an issue, not just one. It is dangerous politics to feed a baby only meat when potatoes are also required. It is afterall, a democratic republic, is it not?




Phy walks like a republican and quacks like a republican...


Phy
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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2004 05:47:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally, in this post (posted by Junkie), Mug has a message for me essentially calling me out:
Quote:
Interesting that you would name me in this way, must be chattin' with Phy.
Perhaps I should just post our conversation.


I'll save you the trouble.


Johne (Phy) Cook | Overlord, Ray Gun Revival
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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2004 05:51:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

operationHIT wrote:
Phy walks like a republican and quacks like a republican...


No mystery there. I am a Republican.

However, I am deeply troubled by many of the things troubling many others and have not decided for whom I will vote this November. If John Edwards were more than just a pretty boy, I've considered placing my vote based on the VPs because I distrust and dislike Cheney more than any man in politics. Edwards is a likeable person but I'm not convinced that makes him qualified to be in line for the highest office in the land. However, he's not the loose cannon that Cheney is, and that's actually a point in Edwards' favor.

When you consider that the Republican party that I know has skewed far to the right, I feel abandoned here in a widening center gulf, and I'm not alone.


Johne (Phy) Cook | Overlord, Ray Gun Revival
{=TLA=}IronMug
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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2004 06:39:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give the post it's proper context.

I do not disapprove of the way you think, I disapprove of claiming a centrist position and posting only from the right. As for my posts, they are only an attempt to assist in balancing this right-winged board.

I do not wish to control your thoughts or posts, that's a bold faced lie to claim that that is really what you believe I was attempting to do. You know that freedom of expression is a deeply cherished right to me and I would never attempt to filter or alter your position on anything. Your first post really does an injustice to my obvious point:

You claim to be a centrist and post from the right and only the right, and I find that a disengenuouss practice.

Control you, you use words around here in true propaganda fashon. As an experienced writer, you understand the power of the written word and consistently misrepresent contexts for some purpose that escapes me.

For the record, I appreciate and respect Phy's positions on issues. I do not disagree that Phy has a centrist position. I argue that Phy posts non-centrist articles consistently from the right and none from the left. I also recognize that Phy abuses our language from time to time to create a contextual fantasy, perhaps for the purposes of stirring up controversy and more interest in this board.

I am a liberal, to the teeth, but I practice centrist politics and believe the middle is the only place we can meet and find the truths that resonate to the left of the line, not the right. I wish everyone would take an interest and read and listen to all the sides of the stories, judge by the information available and stay clear of the partisan rethoric that depleats our nations integrity. I believe that the Republican party practices and believes in conformity not unity. I believe that the Democratic party practices too much unity but I enjoy their appreciation for and encouragement of diversity. I believe that religion should be completely removed from law and politics, to do else-wise is to disenfranchise agnostics and atheists like myself and skew our personal rights in favor of extreme rightists.

Why UTJunkie would name me in this context without knowledge of my conversation with Phy eludes my understanding, so I believe he is lying by denying any knowledge thereof. If I'm incorrect in this deductive assumption then I appologize.

Above all else, I respect the hard truth, there is no honor in untruths or skewed truths. The english language is a communication tool, not a propaganda utility, I suggest we use it as such, especially those that are the most adept at creating prose.

Control your thinking, good god, what are you spewing?


karmapolice
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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2004 08:29:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the bottom line is what we have here is a liberal who thinks hes a centrist, vs. a conservative who thinks hes a centrist. And both are trying to define "centrist" for the other.

The base of your little argument here is not political, its semantic.

How about you guys start pouring out some issues and debating them. You can label eachother till the cows come home, but its the issues that really matter.


HI!

{=TLA=}IronMug
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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2004 09:12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was a private contact not a public post for every tom dick and harry to view. I was approaching Phy privately with my concerns and I did not "call him out". I don't really care who he shares the conversation with, I approached him in private out of respect, the fact that it is now public was not my doing in any stretch of the imagination, nor did I actually intend to display it. I just found it interesting that UTJunkie would name me in the exact context of my conversation with Phy. No-one in TLA, except for Steel, knows anything about my private conversation with Phy.

I am not a centrist, but I do practice and approach information from the centrist standpoint. Phy is prolly closer to center in his personal beliefs than I but displays only conservative views in his articles. I just had a problem with it and approached him in private to discuss the matter.

Your point in debating issues is well taken.


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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2004 09:20:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Okay, I'll just ask this, if you are a centrist and your audience is impressionable, does posting only "right" positions skew their perception of what the middle really is about, that it includes views from the left and the right? Will they understand slightly left as extreme left and extreme right as slightly right? Where does the inundation of material really peak, the right or the left, meaning are you adding to an already disproportionately "right" pile or are you evening the stack?


Is it supposed to be Phy's responsibility to make sure that everyone gets all angles of every story? Just because he posts items of interest to him on this message board?

I don't remember, but when I signed up for this form there did not seem to be any agreement that I entered into that kept me from going elsewhere for opinions or "News/Stories/Articles". Am I about to be sued? Razz
karmapolice
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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2004 09:27:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven-MOK wrote:
Quote:
Okay, I'll just ask this, if you are a centrist and your audience is impressionable, does posting only "right" positions skew their perception of what the middle really is about, that it includes views from the left and the right? Will they understand slightly left as extreme left and extreme right as slightly right? Where does the inundation of material really peak, the right or the left, meaning are you adding to an already disproportionately "right" pile or are you evening the stack?


Is it supposed to be Phy's responsibility to make sure that everyone gets all angles of every story? Just because he posts items of interest to him on this message board?

I don't remember, but when I signed up for this form there did not seem to be any agreement that I entered into that kept me from going elsewhere for opinions or "News/Stories/Articles". Am I about to be sued? Razz


I may be mistaken, but I think Ironmug is saying not that Phy MUST post every angle. I suppose what he is saying is because he doesn't post every angle, and only posts right-leaning angles, that you cannot label him a centrist.

But then again, I am just hypothesizing based on the above posts.


HI!

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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2004 09:28:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my argument is with Phy in skewing the definition of centrist politics. it's a pretty fucking simple concept, really.

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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2004 09:34:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simple concept, stupid argument IMO. A title is just that, a title. Whether you consider yourself one thing and act differently, everyone knows what you really are. I think the facts are the facts and any of this silly bickering is so minor and insipid that you should over look your personal title that you've given yourselves and focus on the issues.

Nemo me impune lacessit
UTJunkie
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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2004 09:46:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

actually the only I named you is because you and Ska are the two most outspoken, and although I don't agree with either of you I do respect the outspokeness.

[] One Name, One Legend.
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