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Gay Marriage Affects Domestic-Partner Benefits
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Raven-MOK
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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2004 07:29:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CloakedKilla wrote:
Phy wrote:
I'm clearly and strongly opposed to Gay "marriage" because of the definition of marriage that I hold. I am just as strongly for homosexual civil unions. To me, the definition is important but not providing benefits is wrong.


I get what you're coming from with that, but the concept of marriage now is so skewed from what you hold it as yourself that it's not funny anymore. Marriage is hardly a religious ceremony anymore as it is a legal title.


CloakedKilla wrote:
Raven-MOK wrote:
Oh, well in that case, pick another planet. Nobody has that here.


So you're saying we shouldn't try? I suppose blacks shouldn't have fought for freedom when we were holding them as slaves? I realize that's a far stretch, but it's the same concept.


No, what I am saying is that the word should not have been used by the Government to begin with. Change that so that in the Government's eye all ANY couple can have is a "civil union" and everyone is "socially equal". Unless you are looking through the eyes of this church or that Church.

That, and people suck. No matter what steps are taken there will likely never be equality. But you knew that, there's examples every day on CNN.
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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2004 07:36:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phy wrote:
As a married man and a man of faith and a man of letters, I simply don't agree. Yes, there is a legal component to it, but that is not the primary reason *I* got married.

Again, I'm not against homosexuals getting the benefits of a union such as I enjoy, I'm simply opposed to them co-opting a term that doesn't apply to their situation just so that they *can* get the benefits of the union such as I enjoy. There needs to be new terminology, not the breaking down or the co-opting of existing terminology.


Amen, brother. Preach on.

The only difference (perhaps) between our opinions is that I would prefer to remove the term "marriage" completely from the law books and return it to it's proper meaning.

Get married in a church. Get your shared benefits license from the State.
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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2004 07:41:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phy wrote:
Seeing that I'm married and you're not, I find this comment to be highly amusing.


Prove me wrong.

Phy wrote:


As a married man and a man of faith and a man of letters, I simply don't agree. Yes, there is a legal component to it, but that is not the primary reason *I* got married.

Again, I'm not against homosexuals getting the benefits of a union such as I enjoy, I'm simply opposed to them co-opting a term that doesn't apply to their situation just so that they *can* get the benefits of the union such as I enjoy. There needs to be new terminology, not the breaking down or the co-opting of existing terminology.


I realize that's not why you got married. That *is* why a lot of people got married. Take the term out of government and all is solved. What happened to separation of church and state?

Marriage is a bond between two people, not something that you are declared once you get your marriage license (wtf?) from a government official. That's what needs to be changed.




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CloakedKilla
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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2004 07:41:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven-MOK wrote:


The only difference (perhaps) between our opinions is that I would prefer to remove the term "marriage" completely from the law books and return it to it's proper meaning.

Get married in a church. Get your shared benefits license from the State.


Blah, I wrote my other post while you posted this I guess. You basically said what I just said. Wink




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Phy
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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2004 08:16:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CloakedKilla wrote:
Blah, I wrote my other post while you posted this I guess. You basically said what I just said. Wink


I was going to note that. Wink


Johne (Phy) Cook | Overlord, Ray Gun Revival
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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2004 08:20:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Opinion piece* not directed at you Phy.

Well IMO I think that if people find happiness then more power to them. There's so much that's fucked up in this world, if you choose to recognize it is another topic, that if two people are happy then they deserve to be married. Call it what you want they are just as in "love" as anyone who has experienced it.

I just can't believe in these times people get in a pissing match about something as trivial as letting other people live their lives. If it breaks your heart to see two people happy then I'm not sure what's wrong with you but get over it. You choose to live your life one way and they choose another, it's not like we are debating runaway industry or powerhouse corporations developing biotech that enfringe on "Gods" work. We are talking about people seeking what we all are and getting shafted because it's not the norm.

Vide Infra

i have opened my eyes to see the world the surrounds me daily
i refuse to be led by the majority
can't compromise i and i
to pass judgment
judgment will be passed upon you
i will stand up for who i am
never moved by condemnation
no one is placed higher than another
no matter race or creed or gender
we must teach forgiveness and compassion for all life
through understanding of our differences
we will find respect for one another
we are all flesh and blood
i am not afraid to speak my mind
no matter the consequences
stay true to yourself
through the humble eyes of a child we will realize true equality
they can not take me from me


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2004 08:23:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CloakedKilla wrote:
I get what you're coming from with that, but the concept of marriage now is so skewed from what you hold it as yourself that it's not funny anymore. Marriage is hardly a religious ceremony anymore as it is a legal title.


I think I might know what you're trying to get at but you're really talking apples and oranges. The ceremony has nothing to do with titles. Marriage is more about the lifetime and commitment of the couples together than just the mere ceremony. One's religion merely plays a role in how they wish to interpret that further. This gets lost on alot of people for various reasons.

I just find it funny how proponents of gay marriage who typically have nothing personally or directly at stake think this is a no brainer. To get benefits involves money. There has to be extensive research and convincing done to alter something that has worked for years. That's not to say that one side is right or wrong but this sort of thing takes time. Basically it's also asking for the government to get involved with the affairs of businesses. That's always scary.

As for the social aspect, well, everyone is entitled to their own opinions of course but anything done with the government rarely alters social views. If anything people who don't typically think about social impacts from major changes need to consider what such an impact will have on them. I'm not thrilled with my young kids going to school and having a teacher who is in a gay marriage. I would oppose a presidential candidate in a gay marriage. How many here would play a video game regularly and admit it to others seriously if the characters they had to choose from were listed as being in gay marriages? The list goes on.
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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2004 08:27:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's see... replace "gay marriage" with Blacks, Asians, Bald people, Fat people, Bible thumpers or any other stereotype in that post and you'd be a racist and a bigot. Nice.

EDIT: If you could step out of your paradigm and look in you'd see you sound like a white southerner from the 50's talking about the social impacts of giving blacks equal rights. Funny how people look back now and wonder how we could be so ignorant. All this judgement in a time when the most popular rapper is white, the best golfer is black, and there's a 7 foot tall chinese guy in the NBA. I think it's time we drop our pitchforks and pick up a newspaper.


Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.


Last edited by Tokenizer on 16 Jul 2004 08:36:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
Phy
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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2004 08:28:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tokenizer wrote:
*Opinion piece* not directed at you Phy.

I just can't believe in these times people get in a pissing match about something as trivial as letting other people live their lives. If it breaks your heart to see two people happy then I'm not sure what's wrong with you but get over it.


No offense taken. Wink

This is essentially the textbook definition of Schadenfreude, taking pleasure from the misery of others. That's not what I'm about, although I certainly won't speak for all fundamental Christians on this topic.


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CloakedKilla
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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2004 09:07:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techslacker wrote:
I'm not thrilled with my young kids going to school and having a teacher who is in a gay marriage. I would oppose a presidential candidate in a gay marriage. How many here would play a video game regularly and admit it to others seriously if the characters they had to choose from were listed as being in gay marriages? The list goes on.


Why should it make a difference to you who your kid's teacher loves, who a presidential candidate is in love with, and whether a video game character (again, wtf?) is gay or not.




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Raven-MOK
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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2004 09:08:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CloakedKilla wrote:
Marriage is a bond between two people

and God, fwiw.
CloakedKilla
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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2004 09:09:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To some people, at least. Wink



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Techslacker
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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2004 09:35:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tokenizer wrote:
Let's see... replace "gay marriage" with Blacks, Asians, Bald people, Fat people, Bible thumpers or any other stereotype in that post and you'd be a racist and a bigot. Nice.

EDIT: If you could step out of your paradigm and look in you'd see you sound like a white southerner from the 50's talking about the social impacts of giving blacks equal rights. Funny how people look back now and wonder how we could be so ignorant. All this judgement in a time when the most popular rapper is white, the best golfer is black, and there's a 7 foot tall chinese guy in the NBA. I think it's time we drop our pitchforks and pick up a newspaper.


Nice speech but that is merely your perspective which I consider to be blurred. I don't believe gay falls into the same categories as race such as Blacks(African-American), Asian, etc. Bald, fat, or whatever else does not as well. You may as well have thrown carnival workers, suits, and blonde bimbos in there as well.

Apparently you choose to intermix them. That's your choice.

If enough research comes out of all of this during my lifetime to convince me from my own beliefs there is nothing to say I can't change my mind. I have had my own experiences with gay couples(no, not intimate Rolling Eyes) and while many have been friends, I also consider them to have a negative social impact.

It's also easy for us to sit back and criticize southerners from the 50's and earlier but many of us also were not around then to truly experience it. Your environment shapes your life and your beliefs. That does not necessarily make someone good or bad in the grand scheme of things.

Do we have a black President in this age you try to compare to? No, but we are finally getting closer to that point. These things take time and people's perceptions can change. My views on gay marriages are what they are. You view me as you wish and I'll view you as I wish. Check back in 50yrs then we can rehash this pi$$ing contest. Wink
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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2004 09:39:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techslacker wrote:
I have had my own experiences with gay couples(no, not intimate Rolling Eyes) and while many have been friends, I also consider them to have a negative social impact.


Care if I ask why?




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Techslacker
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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2004 09:40:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CloakedKilla wrote:
Techslacker wrote:
I'm not thrilled with my young kids going to school and having a teacher who is in a gay marriage. I would oppose a presidential candidate in a gay marriage. How many here would play a video game regularly and admit it to others seriously if the characters they had to choose from were listed as being in gay marriages? The list goes on.


Why should it make a difference to you who your kid's teacher loves, who a presidential candidate is in love with, and whether a video game character (again, wtf?) is gay or not.


Live life a little and you might begin to understand that for every action there is a reaction. Teachers are with kids for much of the day which can heavily influence them. I don't feel for foreign affairs a President in a gay relationship is a good idea. Pretty simple really....did you expect more? As for the game comment, major developers try to write games that appeal to their audience. Seen one lately?
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