Bible Passages on military guns
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PERverSIAN
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Joined: 10 Jun 2005
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Location: Houston, TX
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 Posted: 19 Jan 2010 09:28:38 pm Post subject:
Bible Passages on military guns
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It's been a while with any major contoversary, so allow me to kick up some convo and see what everyone thinks.
NOTE: The scripture used in the image is John 8:12
"When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
Interesting when you think about it. It's always going to be Jesus vs Mohommed...at least for a long time. Pretty stupid and disconcerting.
ARTICLE <----on YAHOO!
| Quote: | Michigan defense contractor has God in its sights
By RICHARD LARDNER, Associated Press Writer Richard Lardner, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON – Combat rifle sights used by U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan carry references to Bible verses, stoking concerns about whether the inscriptions break a government rule that bars proselytizing by American troops.
Military officials said the citations don't violate the ban and they won't stop using the telescoping sights, which allow troops to pinpoint the enemy day or night.
The contractor that makes the equipment, Trijicon of Wixom, Mich., said the U.S. military has been a customer since 1995 and the company has never received any complaints about the Scripture citations.
"We don't publicize this," Tom Munson, Trijicon's director of sales and marketing, said in an interview. "It's not something we make a big deal out of. But when asked, we say, 'Yes, it's there.'"
The inscriptions are subtle and appear in raised lettering at the end of the stock number. Trijicon's rifle sights use tritium, a radioactive form of hydrogen, to create light and help shooters hit what they're aiming for.
Markings on the Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight, which is standard issue to U.S. special operations forces, include "JN8:12," a reference to John 8:12: "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, 'I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life,'" according to the King James version of the Bible.
The Trijicon Reflex sight is stamped with 2COR4:6, a reference to part of the second letter of Paul to the Corinthians: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ," the King James version reads.
Photos posted on a Defense Department Web site show Iraqi forces training with rifles equipped with the inscribed sights.
The Defense Department is a major customer of Trijicon's. In 2009 alone, the Marine Corps signed deals worth $66 million for the company's products. Trijicon's scopes and optical devices for guns range in cost from a few hundred dollars to $13,000, according to the company's Web site.
Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, says the biblically inscribed sights could give the Taliban and other enemy forces a propaganda tool: that American troops are Christian crusaders invading Muslim countries.
"I don't have to wonder for a nanosecond how the American public would react if citations from the Koran were being inscribed onto these U.S. armed forces gun sights instead of New Testament citations," Weinstein said. The foundation is a nonprofit watchdog group opposed to religious favoritism within the military.
Weinstein said he has received complaints about the Scripture citations from active-duty and retired members of the military. He said he couldn't identify them because they fear retaliation.
A spokesman for U.S. Central Command, which manages military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, said the inscribed sights don't violate the ban on proselytizing because there's no effort to distribute the equipment beyond the U.S. troops who use them.
"This situation is not unlike the situation with U.S. currency," said the spokesman, Air Force Maj. John Redfield. "Are we going to stop using money because the bills have 'In God We Trust' on them? As long as the sights meet the combat needs of troops, they'll continue to be used."
Capt. Geraldine Carey, a Marine Corps spokeswoman, said Tuesday in an e-mailed statement that "we are aware of the issue and are concerned with how this may be perceived." Carey said Marine Corps acquisition officials plan to meet with Trijicon to discuss future purchases of the company's sights. The statement did not say what the nature of those discussions would be.
Gary Tallman, an Army spokesman, said the service was not aware of the nature of these markings and its acquisition experts are investigating to determine if Trijicon violated any procurement rules.
Munson, Trijicon's sales director, said the practice of putting Bible references on the sites began nearly 30 years ago by Trijicon's founder, Glyn Bindon, who was killed in a plane crash in 2003. His son Stephen, Trijicon's president, has continued the practice. |
| jesterx99 wrote: | | i agree with Perv, |
| jesterx99 wrote: | | ALL YOUR MOM'S ARE BELONG TO ME!!! |
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Blutarsky
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Joined: 26 Jan 2002
Posts: 5784
Location: Texas
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| Posted: 20 Jan 2010 02:48:42 am Post subject:
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these are optical sights -- all of the quotes in question are related to "light" ... it makes sense. why all the fuss? plus, it's a private company. next assault rifle i build i'll put a trijicon on, they sound like good people.
My heroes have always been cowboys.
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave... and keep on thinking free
The large print giveth and the fine print taketh away. |
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PERverSIAN
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Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 2357
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: 20 Jan 2010 02:18:32 pm Post subject:
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| Blutarsky wrote: | | these are optical sights -- all of the quotes in question are related to "light" ... it makes sense. why all the fuss? plus, it's a private company. next assault rifle i build i'll put a trijicon on, they sound like good people. |
man, when you put it like that, i guess its no big deal.
| jesterx99 wrote: | | i agree with Perv, |
| jesterx99 wrote: | | ALL YOUR MOM'S ARE BELONG TO ME!!! |
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WK
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| Posted: 20 Jan 2010 06:18:10 pm Post subject:
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it can be read a couple of differnt ways, but stripped down, its a perversion of what the scripture says. its putting the words of christ about him being the light of the world, and that anyone who comes to christ can have life, and pairing it with a weapon of death. you can play a word game about light and take the scripture out of context but that does not make it no big deal, scripturally speaking. its up to each person to decide if it bothers them, but from a biblical perepctive, there is no ambiguity on the matter.
You know Tom Hanks, Forrest Gump. Slow, yes. Retarded, maybe. Braces on his legs. But he charmed the pants off Nixon and he won a ping-pong competition? That ain’t retarded.
You went full retard, man. Never go full retard. |
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PERverSIAN
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Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: 20 Jan 2010 10:33:05 pm Post subject:
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| WK wrote: | | but stripped down, its a perversion |
oh yeah 
| jesterx99 wrote: | | i agree with Perv, |
| jesterx99 wrote: | | ALL YOUR MOM'S ARE BELONG TO ME!!! |
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CloakedKilla
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Joined: 07 Apr 2002
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Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: 30 Jan 2010 04:54:55 pm Post subject:
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| Blutarsky wrote: | | these are optical sights -- all of the quotes in question are related to "light" ... it makes sense. why all the fuss? plus, it's a private company. next assault rifle i build i'll put a trijicon on, they sound like good people. |
It's a private company contracted by the government making guns for use by U.S. soldiers. You can't be serious on this one.
dude
Sephirrrrrrrrrroth says:
i'm crying
Sephirrrrrrrrrroth says:
i just put aftershave on my nuts |
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Blutarsky
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| Posted: 01 Feb 2010 08:36:20 pm Post subject:
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meh ... it's not like it's a new thing, they've been doing it forever. they didn't start it and sneak it in after they got a contract. so i don't much care. in any case, they changed their policy apparently, so it won't be happening any longer...
still, might be on my shopping list if they weren't so damned expensive
My heroes have always been cowboys.
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave... and keep on thinking free
The large print giveth and the fine print taketh away. |
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Maverick
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Joined: 26 Jan 2002
Posts: 5735
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: 03 Feb 2010 11:47:32 am Post subject:
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| CloakedKilla wrote: | | Blutarsky wrote: | | these are optical sights -- all of the quotes in question are related to "light" ... it makes sense. why all the fuss? plus, it's a private company. next assault rifle i build i'll put a trijicon on, they sound like good people. |
It's a private company contracted by the government making guns for use by U.S. soldiers. You can't be serious on this one. |
Is there any part of the Bible that agrees with you?
Nemo me impune lacessit |
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PERverSIAN
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Joined: 10 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 03 Feb 2010 04:26:22 pm Post subject:
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| Maverick wrote: | | CloakedKilla wrote: | | Blutarsky wrote: | | these are optical sights -- all of the quotes in question are related to "light" ... it makes sense. why all the fuss? plus, it's a private company. next assault rifle i build i'll put a trijicon on, they sound like good people. |
It's a private company contracted by the government making guns for use by U.S. soldiers. You can't be serious on this one. |
Is there any part of the Bible that agrees with you? |
wow...so i guess that whole passing judgement thing is the one minor part you forgot to remember...oh...and that one time this one guy said anyone that has no faults can cast the first stone.
i love it when individual #1 can speak an opinion and his/her main point is "i do not agree" and individual #2 just comes back says "well you're not perfect either"....99% of the problems today come from this crap
example: so-called muslims kill in the name of god and so- called christians thinks its ok to put bible passages on guns...as if it will cancel them out. all you're doing is going down to their level. ironic isnt it? all you do is make the oppsoing view look bad inherently never justifying your own view cuz all you did is what they did.
| jesterx99 wrote: | | i agree with Perv, |
| jesterx99 wrote: | | ALL YOUR MOM'S ARE BELONG TO ME!!! |
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Maverick
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Joined: 26 Jan 2002
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| Posted: 03 Feb 2010 10:41:06 pm Post subject:
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I think you jumped the gun here?
All I asked if there was a part of the Bible that agreed with the man.
Who placed judgment on who?
Nemo me impune lacessit |
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Deadman
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Location: Hahira, GA
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| Posted: 04 Feb 2010 06:19:39 pm Post subject:
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Military boys here at Moody tell me that they've had the scope for years and didn't know that it had anything to do with the bible until this shit hit the net. According to them its just a serial number and unless your really looking to make something out of it. They've been doing this for 20 years and now it comes out? Besides the majority of US citizens are christian(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States), so if they are making this a christian vs muslim thing, let people believe it. Mav a lot of us believe what we read in the bible is just as true as the crap we read here on the interwebs
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Phy
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Joined: 04 Jun 2002
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Location: n. 1. The act or process of locating.
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| Posted: 05 Feb 2010 09:48:38 pm Post subject:
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This is the relevant bit:
| Blutarsky wrote: | | they changed their policy apparently, so it won't be happening any longer... |
Johne (Phy) Cook | Overlord, Ray Gun Revival |
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Maverick
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Joined: 26 Jan 2002
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Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: 10 Feb 2010 01:53:41 am Post subject:
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| Deadman wrote: | | Military boys here at Moody tell me that they've had the scope for years and didn't know that it had anything to do with the bible until this shit hit the net. According to them its just a serial number and unless your really looking to make something out of it. They've been doing this for 20 years and now it comes out? Besides the majority of US citizens are christian(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States), so if they are making this a christian vs muslim thing, let people believe it. Mav a lot of us believe what we read in the bible is just as true as the crap we read here on the interwebs |
I know that's the case for you, but don't speak for the average American, please.
I just want to know if there's *something* that the man agrees with! The Golden Rule, perhaps, something, anything?
Nemo me impune lacessit |
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jesterx99
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| Posted: 10 Feb 2010 10:59:43 am Post subject:
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I've never had a biblical passage nor any passage from anything on my weapon in the 3+ years I've been using it. Same goes for everyone in my unit. They're not our personal property and our armorer wouldn't be very unhappy if we put anything on the weapon that doesn't either help kill, see, or steady our shot.
| PERverSIAN wrote: | | you're totally correct J...totally right my friend. |
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PERverSIAN
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Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 2357
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: 10 Feb 2010 03:00:18 pm Post subject:
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| jesterx99 wrote: | | I've never had a biblical passage nor any passage from anything on my weapon in the 3+ years I've been using it. Same goes for everyone in my unit. They're not our personal property and our armorer wouldn't be very unhappy if we put anything on the weapon that doesn't either help kill, see, or steady our shot. |
if i had to have a bible passage on my gun, it would be this one...and i quote...
"Ezekiel 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you." I been sayin' that shit for years. And if you ever heard it, it meant your ass. I never really questioned what it meant. I thought it was just a cold-blooded thing to say to a motherfucker before you popped a cap in his ass. But I saw some shit this mornin' made me think twice. Now I'm thinkin': it could mean you're the evil man. And I'm the righteous man. And Mr. .45 here, he's the shepherd protecting my righteous ass in the valley of darkness. Or it could be you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the world that's evil and selfish. I'd like that. But that shit ain't the truth. The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin, Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd."
| jesterx99 wrote: | | i agree with Perv, |
| jesterx99 wrote: | | ALL YOUR MOM'S ARE BELONG TO ME!!! |
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