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CloakedKilla
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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2008 08:16:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maverick wrote:
Hydrological Cycle - written 3500 years before modern science understood it
Air having weight - written 3500 years before modern science understood it
Mitochondrial Eve - written 4000 years before modern science understood it
Y-Chromosome Adam - written 4000 years before modern science understood it
Fulfilled Prophecies - How does the book of Isaiah name by name the person who 500 years later would conquer the Babylonians (Cyrus), that's just one of hundreds of prophecies
Fossilization process, coal, diamonds, petrol - all taking a much smaller amount of time than previously thought
Personification of Evolution/Nature - ultimate hypocrisy. evolutionists want to ascribe an intelligence to the process of evolution but rule out an intelligent designer. Even if you disagree with the premise of the Bible, you CAN'T rule out the premise of an Intelligent Designer. You can't look at the functions of nature and say that it's just CHANCE. That is ridiculous.
CloakedKiller wrote:
We do have things that are irreducibly complex, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have developed.

They couldn't have without an intelligent force driving it. You can't explain everything by chance.

By the way, the flood took place 5000 years ago, not 6000.

So if you don't argue Miracles, then you must realize that miracles are not scientifically grounded, then you must acknowledge SOMETHING that you cannot prove the existence of directly, only its effects in this world.


What is your definition of "before modern science understood it"? Aristotle philosophized about the atom thousands of years ago, well before "modern science understood it". Does that make his writings divine? I'm not downplaying the intelligence of the writers of the Bible, but the fact that they were able to conceptualize complex matters doesn't automatically mean they were divinely inspired.

And what do you mean about "Mitochondrial Eve"? The "mitochondrial Eve" scientists discovered is the most recent common ancestor through matrilineal descent of all humans today. That does NOT mean that this specimen was the only living human at the time nor does it mean it was the first human. We have homo sapiens specimens that are older than the "mitochondrial Eve" you're talking about as well as a full fossil record of hominid species predating them...just because there's a recent common ancestor in existence that we know about does not mean Genesis is justified.

I'm not trying to disclaim the existence of God, but you're confusing the ideas that because there is reason to believe in a God, that means there's reason to think the Bible only is literal and the Bible only is what is correct.

And what do you mean about coal and petrol forming quicker than previously thought? Are you referring to those bunk abiogenic origin of oil "theories" (and I use the term loosely, they're certainly not real theories) that make all kinds of false claims that have been proven wrong? Small amounts of oil can form abiogenically but nowhere even close to being the same scale as petrol deposits that actually exist.




dude
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Maverick
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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2008 10:22:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aristotle wasn't even a thought when the Torah was written, and there's evidence to support that Moses also wrote the book of Job before he wrote the Torah.

Moses and the Exodus took place at around 2000 BC. Mitochondrial Eve is enough proof along with Y-Chromosome Adam that all living Human Beings have one common Ancestral couple.

We have to remember though, that although all humans came from Adam and Eve, all humans were wiped out and we started over again with Noah and his wife.

So how do you explain the prophecies that come true? Science has a smart answer for everything but where does 1) all matter and energy in the universe come from, and 2) how did that lifeless matter and energy change on this earth into life?

Modern science is what has been brought about in the last 500 years. We went from a round world, to a flat world, back to a round world. Don't say anything else about Aristotle either, because their gods believed that the atmosphere was held on the back of a titan, and other such mythology.


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CloakedKilla
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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008 01:46:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maverick wrote:
Science has a smart answer for everything but where does 1) all matter and energy in the universe come from, and 2) how did that lifeless matter and energy change on this earth into life?


I'm still seeing no logical connection between "the universe was probably created by some divine entity" and "the Bible is literally true". The two are completely mutually independent. You can use the former argument to justify any religious claim.

There's no evidence at all that Socrates, Plato, or Aristotle put any faith in Greek mythology so claiming that their culture pushed erroneous gods doesn't at all cancel out anything they've said.

You claim Biblical prophecy, but Biblical prophecy is nothing greater than any other prophecy from someone like Nostradamus. They both make grand, vague claims that are pretty much certain to come true at some point in history. And isn't it just wonderful when we get to pick and choose which ones we want to claim as truly divine? The claim that Cyrus was predicted by name is completely false and ignores all sort of historical linguistics. Isaiah was written in Hebrew and says "Koresh"...his actual name was Persian and it was Kuros. The fact that they were both translated to Cyrus in English says nothing about whether or not it was a true prophecy. This is almost as convincing as Nostradamus's prophecy about a man named Hisler from Germany doing terrible deeds. I suppose if we're going to go with the idea that prophecies are true if they give names that are almost correct, then Nostradamus is divine as much as Aristotle is.

Once again I don't mean to say any of this to deny the existence of God or anything. I wouldn't call myself an atheist. I simply don't believe in the Bible as LITERAL or even particularly divine, at least not as any more divine than other religious texts. I see God in more things than a book and in a more encompassing way than the Bible projects. I don't see God as an entity but rather as a spirit, or a force that is ever-present and connects us. This is why it saddens me so much to see people drive wedges in the name of God, as if God wants us to be separate.

It's the things you describe that lead me to these beliefs - the miracle of life, existence, of sentience. The sheer fact that we're able to have this conversation amazes me and leaves me in awe. If you've found God through tradition, through your beliefs, then I'm all for it. I know you to be a good person for sure and I think you've expanded quite a lot since you became more involved in your church (if I remember correctly you weren't so gung-ho just a few years back). That's a good thing. But understand that not everybody has your experience, not everybody finds God or even conceptualizes God the same way, and there's no single right answer for how either of those things are done.

I find that the stories in the Bible far better serve me as allegories than as literal histories.




dude
Sephirrrrrrrrrroth says:
i'm crying
Sephirrrrrrrrrroth says:
i just put aftershave on my nuts
Maverick
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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008 03:22:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prophecy | Old Testament (Torah & Haphtarah) | New Testament Fulfilled
1. Messiah's pre-existence. Micah 5:2 John 1:1, 1:14
2. To be from the seed of a woman. Genesis 3:15 Matthew 1:18
3. To be from the seed of Abraham. Genesis 12:3 Matthew 1:1-16
4. To be from the seed of David. Isaiah 11:10 Matthew 1:1
5. Abraham's descendant would bless all nations. Genesis 12:3; 18:18 Matthew 1:2
6. To be from the tribe of Judah. Genesis 49:10 Matthew 1:1-3
7. To be a prophet like Moses. Deuteronomy 18:15,19 John 5:45-47
8. To be the Son of God. Isaiah 9:6-7 Luke 1:32
9. To be called Lord Jeremiah 23:5-6 John 13:13
10. To be called Mighty God Isaiah 9:6 Matthew 1:23
11. To be God within a man Zechariah 12:10-11 John 10:30
12. To be presented with gifts. Psalm 72:10 Matthew 2:10
13. To die before the 2nd Temple is destroyed. Daniel 9:24-27 Temple destroyed in 70 A.D.; Jesus killed between 30-33 A.D.
14. To enter Jerusalem between 30-33 A.D. Daniel 9:24-27 Jesus enters Jerusalem between 30-33 A.D.
15. To be born in Bethlehem. Micah 5:2 Luke 2:4-2:7
16. To perform miracles. Isaiah 35:5-6 Matthew 11:4-6
17. To enter Jerusalem on a donkey. Zechariah 9:9 Matthew 21:6-9
18. To enter Jerusalem as a King. Zechariah 9:9 Matthew 21:5
19. To suffer. Isaiah 53:10-11 Mark 15:34-37
20. To bring salvation. Isaiah 59:16-20 Luke 19:10
21. When God establishes His new covenant, Israel will come to know the Lord; not just His laws. Jeremiah 31:31-34 Matthew 11:29-30
22. To be raised from the dead. Psalm 16:10, Isaiah 53:10 Mark 16:9-10
23. To sit at the right hand of God. Psalm 110:1 Mark 16:19
24. To be a priest forever. Psalm 110:4 Hebrews 5:5-6
25. To be an intercessor between man and God. Isaiah 59:16 Matthew 10:32
26. To be called wonderful counselor Isaiah 9:5-6 Luke 4:22
27. To be called everlasting father. Isaiah 9:5-6 Matthew 1:23
28. To be called prince of peace. Isaiah 9:5-6 John 16:33
29. To be a guide to Jews and Gentiles. Isaiah 42:1; Isaiah 49:1-8 Luke 2:32
30. To be accepted by Gentiles. Isaiah 11:10 Acts 13:47-48
31. To be preceded by a messenger. Isaiah 40:3 Matthew 11:10-11
32. To bring light to Galilee. Isaiah 9:1-2 Matthew 4:15
33. Would be rejected. Isaiah 53:3; Daniel 9:24-26 John 1:11
34. Would be tried and condemned. Isaiah 53:8 Acts 8:31-35
35. Would be pierced. Isaiah 53:5 John 20:25
36. Would be wounded. Isaiah 53:5 John 19:17-18
37. Would be considered a criminal. Isaiah 53:12 Luke 22:37
38. Would pray for criminals. Isaiah 53:12 Luke 23:34 (in reference to the soldiers)
39. Would have no broken bones. Psalm 34:20/21, Exodus 12:46, Numbers 9:12) John 19:33
40. Would be silent before His accusers. Isaiah 53:7 Matthew 27:14
41. Would be buried in a rich man's tomb. Isaiah 53:9 Matthew 27:57-60
42. Would heal the blind. Isaiah 61:1-2 John 9:25-38
43. Would preach to the poor. Isaiah 61:1-2 Matthew 11:5
44. Would die for the sins of Israel & the World. Isaiah 53:5-6 Matthew 20:28
45. Israel would see, but not see; hear, but not hear. Isaiah 6:9-10 Matthew 13:13-15
46. His message would spread world-wide. Isaiah 49:6 Acts 15:15-18
47. Would be a priest after the order of Melchizedek. Psalm 110:4 Hebrews 5:10
48. Darkness would fall over Israel at 12:00 P.M. on a day where the Lord would have Israel mourn for an only Son. Amos 8:9-10 Matthew 27:45


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CloakedKilla
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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008 02:45:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maverick wrote:
Prophecy | Old Testament (Torah & Haphtarah) | New Testament Fulfilled
1. Messiah's pre-existence. Micah 5:2 John 1:1, 1:14
2. To be from the seed of a woman. Genesis 3:15 Matthew 1:18
3. To be from the seed of Abraham. Genesis 12:3 Matthew 1:1-16
4. To be from the seed of David. Isaiah 11:10 Matthew 1:1
5. Abraham's descendant would bless all nations. Genesis 12:3; 18:18 Matthew 1:2
6. To be from the tribe of Judah. Genesis 49:10 Matthew 1:1-3
7. To be a prophet like Moses. Deuteronomy 18:15,19 John 5:45-47
8. To be the Son of God. Isaiah 9:6-7 Luke 1:32
9. To be called Lord Jeremiah 23:5-6 John 13:13
10. To be called Mighty God Isaiah 9:6 Matthew 1:23
11. To be God within a man Zechariah 12:10-11 John 10:30
12. To be presented with gifts. Psalm 72:10 Matthew 2:10
13. To die before the 2nd Temple is destroyed. Daniel 9:24-27 Temple destroyed in 70 A.D.; Jesus killed between 30-33 A.D.
14. To enter Jerusalem between 30-33 A.D. Daniel 9:24-27 Jesus enters Jerusalem between 30-33 A.D.
15. To be born in Bethlehem. Micah 5:2 Luke 2:4-2:7
16. To perform miracles. Isaiah 35:5-6 Matthew 11:4-6
17. To enter Jerusalem on a donkey. Zechariah 9:9 Matthew 21:6-9
18. To enter Jerusalem as a King. Zechariah 9:9 Matthew 21:5
19. To suffer. Isaiah 53:10-11 Mark 15:34-37
20. To bring salvation. Isaiah 59:16-20 Luke 19:10
21. When God establishes His new covenant, Israel will come to know the Lord; not just His laws. Jeremiah 31:31-34 Matthew 11:29-30
22. To be raised from the dead. Psalm 16:10, Isaiah 53:10 Mark 16:9-10
23. To sit at the right hand of God. Psalm 110:1 Mark 16:19
24. To be a priest forever. Psalm 110:4 Hebrews 5:5-6
25. To be an intercessor between man and God. Isaiah 59:16 Matthew 10:32
26. To be called wonderful counselor Isaiah 9:5-6 Luke 4:22
27. To be called everlasting father. Isaiah 9:5-6 Matthew 1:23
28. To be called prince of peace. Isaiah 9:5-6 John 16:33
29. To be a guide to Jews and Gentiles. Isaiah 42:1; Isaiah 49:1-8 Luke 2:32
30. To be accepted by Gentiles. Isaiah 11:10 Acts 13:47-48
31. To be preceded by a messenger. Isaiah 40:3 Matthew 11:10-11
32. To bring light to Galilee. Isaiah 9:1-2 Matthew 4:15
33. Would be rejected. Isaiah 53:3; Daniel 9:24-26 John 1:11
34. Would be tried and condemned. Isaiah 53:8 Acts 8:31-35
35. Would be pierced. Isaiah 53:5 John 20:25
36. Would be wounded. Isaiah 53:5 John 19:17-18
37. Would be considered a criminal. Isaiah 53:12 Luke 22:37
38. Would pray for criminals. Isaiah 53:12 Luke 23:34 (in reference to the soldiers)
39. Would have no broken bones. Psalm 34:20/21, Exodus 12:46, Numbers 9:12) John 19:33
40. Would be silent before His accusers. Isaiah 53:7 Matthew 27:14
41. Would be buried in a rich man's tomb. Isaiah 53:9 Matthew 27:57-60
42. Would heal the blind. Isaiah 61:1-2 John 9:25-38
43. Would preach to the poor. Isaiah 61:1-2 Matthew 11:5
44. Would die for the sins of Israel & the World. Isaiah 53:5-6 Matthew 20:28
45. Israel would see, but not see; hear, but not hear. Isaiah 6:9-10 Matthew 13:13-15
46. His message would spread world-wide. Isaiah 49:6 Acts 15:15-18
47. Would be a priest after the order of Melchizedek. Psalm 110:4 Hebrews 5:10
48. Darkness would fall over Israel at 12:00 P.M. on a day where the Lord would have Israel mourn for an only Son. Amos 8:9-10 Matthew 27:45


You say this is a prophecy for Jesus, I say it was a prophecy for Krishna. Krishna was born of a virgin birth, blessed all nations, was said to be the Son of God, was called Lord, was said to be both God and man, was presented with three gifts upon his birth by wise men who were guided to him by a star, suffered, was pierced and crucified, rose from the dead three days after his death, and was considered to be the savior of men.

Does that sound familiar? Jesus was an archetypal character in terms of religion...all of those prophecies you list had already been fulfilled by existing mythology. The fact that they picked them up and reinvented them doesn't make it miraculous. Jews still disagree that any of those prophecies were fulfilled by Jesus, so it's completely subjective.




dude
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Sephirrrrrrrrrroth says:
i just put aftershave on my nuts
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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008 03:30:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What "holy book" are you reading that defines any of that as Krishna? There is no evidence in any "holy" book that shows that any other faith has that belief system.

Which mythologies can match those prophecies? You made a claim, the burden of truth is on you.

Krishna ascended into heaven while in meditation in the forest. He was not born of a virgin. His father was Dasuveda and his mother Devaki. He fulfilled not one of the prophecies.

There's also something distinctly different about a "god" being killed by another god for his own sake and my Savior dying for my sake as part of the Divine Plan for salvation. You see, there is not atonement for sin without the shedding of blood, and we couldn't keep the 613 laws of the Torah, but we were missing the point. It wasn't our actions that God wanted, it was our hearts. We became so legalistic that He took care of the sin problem for us, so we could focus on our relationship with Him. There is no other faith which does that, where God Himself comes down to deal with the sin problem, so that you can have a better relationship with Him.


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CloakedKilla
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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008 03:47:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maverick wrote:
What "holy book" are you reading that defines any of that as Krishna? There is no evidence in any "holy" book that shows that any other faith has that belief system.

Which mythologies can match those prophecies? You made a claim, the burden of truth is on you.

Krishna ascended into heaven while in meditation in the forest. He was not born of a virgin. His father was Dasuveda and his mother Devaki. He fulfilled not one of the prophecies.

There's also something distinctly different about a "god" being killed by another god for his own sake and my Savior dying for my sake as part of the Divine Plan for salvation. You see, there is not atonement for sin without the shedding of blood, and we couldn't keep the 613 laws of the Torah, but we were missing the point. It wasn't our actions that God wanted, it was our hearts. We became so legalistic that He took care of the sin problem for us, so we could focus on our relationship with Him. There is no other faith which does that, where God Himself comes down to deal with the sin problem, so that you can have a better relationship with Him.


The same archetypal story is true of the Egyptian god Horus as well as the popular Mithra which was followed by many during the 1st and 2nd centuries.

Here's a good side-by-side comparison of Horus and Jesus:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm




dude
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i'm crying
Sephirrrrrrrrrroth says:
i just put aftershave on my nuts
Maverick
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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008 04:02:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where's the evidence of an actual Horus or Osiris? We have evidence that proves that Yeshua existed and walked this earth. We have testimony of hundreds of people that were Jewish and Roman alike that saw, felt, heard Yeshua.

What about the millions of people around the world who have changed as a result of their relationship with Horus Yeshua?

If their message of salvation was so great, where's the evidence of it?

The mere fact that the website you've quoted quotes Acharya S. is enough to show me that there is no basis. Where is the book of Egyptian mythology that hasn't changed in the last 3000 years to show that this is actually what they believed? We have proof that shows that the Tanakh hasn't changed, ever, until recently by rabbinical rabbis.


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CloakedKilla
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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2008 04:26:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maverick wrote:
Where's the evidence of an actual Horus or Osiris? We have evidence that proves that Yeshua existed and walked this earth. We have testimony of hundreds of people that were Jewish and Roman alike that saw, felt, heard Yeshua.

What about the millions of people around the world who have changed as a result of their relationship with Horus Yeshua?

If their message of salvation was so great, where's the evidence of it?

The mere fact that the website you've quoted quotes Acharya S. is enough to show me that there is no basis. Where is the book of Egyptian mythology that hasn't changed in the last 3000 years to show that this is actually what they believed? We have proof that shows that the Tanakh hasn't changed, ever, until recently by rabbinical rabbis.


Sure, we have evidence existed. But all the mythology stuff is contained NOWHERE but in the Gospels. Plenty of people changed as a result of their relationship with Horus, at least when he was one of the most popular gods in civilized societies.

Where's the book of Egyptian mythology that hasn't changed in the last 3000 years? It's called the Book of the Dead. His story is also expanded upon in the Book of Caverns as well as other Egyptian texts that were preserved in mummies. There's really a vast amount of texts you can find if you look for them.




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i just put aftershave on my nuts
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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2008 01:56:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CloakedKilla wrote:
Sure, we have evidence existed. But all the mythology stuff is contained NOWHERE but in the Gospels. Plenty of people changed as a result of their relationship with Horus, at least when he was one of the most popular gods in civilized societies.

Where's the book of Egyptian mythology that hasn't changed in the last 3000 years? It's called the Book of the Dead. His story is also expanded upon in the Book of Caverns as well as other Egyptian texts that were preserved in mummies. There's really a vast amount of texts you can find if you look for them.


http://www.aldokkan.com/religion/dead.htm

That's not true. The book of the dead was not any sort of story, and has changed over the years. It was meant to be read by the dead in their passage to the underworld, and had not mention of much else other than spells. Also, it changed throughout time.

Where's the evidence of their relationship with Horus? Where do you see any documentation of people becoming better human beings? I can show you countless people, myself included, and introduce them to you person to person, people who used to be some of the worst people that you would never associate yourself with, now some of the most righteous people.

The book of Caverns makes no mention of any kind of code to live your life, nor how to have a relationship with Horus, nor does it have Horus' story in which it explains that he was born of a virgin and died for the sins of the world.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/caverns.htm

So can we get off this crap about how other mythologies had virgin births, please? There is no name above the name of Yeshua, which means salvation.


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CloakedKilla
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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2008 02:56:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maverick wrote:
CloakedKilla wrote:
Sure, we have evidence existed. But all the mythology stuff is contained NOWHERE but in the Gospels. Plenty of people changed as a result of their relationship with Horus, at least when he was one of the most popular gods in civilized societies.

Where's the book of Egyptian mythology that hasn't changed in the last 3000 years? It's called the Book of the Dead. His story is also expanded upon in the Book of Caverns as well as other Egyptian texts that were preserved in mummies. There's really a vast amount of texts you can find if you look for them.


http://www.aldokkan.com/religion/dead.htm

That's not true. The book of the dead was not any sort of story, and has changed over the years. It was meant to be read by the dead in their passage to the underworld, and had not mention of much else other than spells. Also, it changed throughout time.

Where's the evidence of their relationship with Horus? Where do you see any documentation of people becoming better human beings? I can show you countless people, myself included, and introduce them to you person to person, people who used to be some of the worst people that you would never associate yourself with, now some of the most righteous people.

The book of Caverns makes no mention of any kind of code to live your life, nor how to have a relationship with Horus, nor does it have Horus' story in which it explains that he was born of a virgin and died for the sins of the world.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/caverns.htm

So can we get off this crap about how other mythologies had virgin births, please? There is no name above the name of Yeshua, which means salvation.


How does a book that was recovered from a mummy that has been literally untouched for thousands of years change throughout time? I submit that it changes much less than a book that's been translated dozens of times, in which some copies contain entire books left out of others, in which some copies contain verses excluded from others, and has thousands of different interpretations resulting in hundreds of different religious denominations that quarrel amongst themselves over who has the "true" story. Not to mention the number of books about Jesus that were simply discarded and not made part of the Bible for no reason other than an arbitrary disagreement of theology.

You're right that it was a book meant to be used for the dead. But it did contain stories and instructions relating to the stories of Horus and Osiris, logically since Osiris was god of afterlife and Horus was his son who was said to preside over the Sun (life) as well as the moon (death). If you want more information you can read Plutarch's histories of Egyptian theology. You can also find parts of the story in the Pyramid Texts. The most comprehensive story is recorded on the walls in the Temple of Edfu as well (unchanged for thousands of years, by the way).

I'm not trying to claim by any means that the story of Jesus was copied from existing texts, but he does meet an archetypal storyline that's present throughout many religions. I'm sure you're familiar with the god Mithra as well, whose story parallels Jesus's more than any other.




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Sephirrrrrrrrrroth says:
i'm crying
Sephirrrrrrrrrroth says:
i just put aftershave on my nuts
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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2008 03:23:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is it that every single time that I topple one of your arguments you bring up another?

First there were living trees that are older than 10,000 years, then when I debunked that they're petrified trees that are older than that, but we still can't find them.

First it was Horus who was born of a virgin and died for the sins of the world, then it's Mithra. It was first the book of the dead, then the book of caverns, now written on the walls of a pyramid. The book of the dead was changed while it was in use, over hundreds of years. That was in the first link I gave you.

You're right about translations, but the original Hebrew we still have, as well as the original Greek. So there goes that philosophy. By the way, when I do my studies, I have an interlinear bible with the original languages, along with a concordance so that I can understand it myself.

Did you know the book of Job describes dragons? Weird how the oldest book of the Bible written by any author, but especially attributed to Moses, has Adonai, not man, but Adonai's own words describing dragons.

The parts that were not included in the Bible were rightly excluded, because they didn't line up. Yet it's amazing how among the 44 different authors, written over 1500 years timespan, that the Bible doesn't contradict itself. That takes something amazing to accomplish.

To put your latest falsity to bed, Zoroaster was said to have lived between 600 and 500 BC. Moses, King David, King Solomon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and most of the Old Testament Prophets existed and wrote about haMashiach hundreds of years before Zoroaster lived. So who borrowed from who?


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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2008 04:06:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maverick wrote:
Why is it that every single time that I topple one of your arguments you bring up another?

First there were living trees that are older than 10,000 years, then when I debunked that they're petrified trees that are older than that, but we still can't find them.

First it was Horus who was born of a virgin and died for the sins of the world, then it's Mithra. It was first the book of the dead, then the book of caverns, now written on the walls of a pyramid. The book of the dead was changed while it was in use, over hundreds of years. That was in the first link I gave you.


I never said there were living trees 10,000 years old. I say we have tree ring data dating back more than 10,000 years, which is true. It's called dendrochronology, check it out:

http://www.answers.com/topic/dendrochronology

My whole claim was that there are multiple salvation stories, multiple stories of virgin births, multiple stories of deaths and resurrections. I actually mentioned Krishna first, then Horus, then Mithra. All three of them share similar archetypal storylines with Jesus.

I also never claimed that the Book of the Dead or the Book of Caverns contained the story of Horus, only that they were a few texts that exist that reference him. Quote: "as well as other Egyptian texts that were preserved in mummies. There's really a vast amount of texts you can find if you look for them." Never once did I make the claim that it was exclusive to anything. To understand polytheistic theology you have to examine multiple texts and recordings.




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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2008 04:41:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know what dendrochronology is, that doesn't mean we have proof of a 10,000 year old fossilized tree.

The fact is that Zoroaster lived after the majority of the Old Testament had been written, so Jesus wasn't borrowed from him. Horus never actually existed, Jesus did. And even if he did, Horus never died for the sins of the world, neither was he born of a virgin Mary (like your link espoused), neither did he die on a cross, which didn't even exist until the Romans. In fact, his story was changed, in one account Isis was a virgin, in another Isis was a widow. Krishna ascended to heaven while in the forest, never dying.

None of them share a story with Jesus.

Something else that's interesting, if those stories were so compelling, why were so many people willing to die for their faith in Yeshua? The modern evidence in people's lives is more than overwhelming.


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