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Phy
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PostPosted: 02 Oct 2007 11:51:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PERverSIAN wrote:
dude, stop speaking on this topic, you have no idea how to respond like an educated individual. moooooooooooo


Educated. Hm. Perhaps you can point us to what an educated individual looks like, then, because I'm not seeing it in your responses, either.

Keep it civil, Perv, if you're at all interested in winning any kind of mindshare at all.


Johne (Phy) Cook | Overlord, Ray Gun Revival
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PostPosted: 03 Oct 2007 01:15:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blutarsky wrote:
PERverSIAN wrote:
Blutarsky wrote:
ya know what else, who are these people? they are described in the letter as "...Seven chancellors and presidents of Iranian universities and research centers...", and introduce themselves with the line "We, the professors and heads of universities and research institutions in Tehran..." -- and yet their names, their institutions, and their own credentials are notably absent.

is this even legit?

your ability to retain information is not that good is it? this proves your one sided narrow uneducated view of the world. i have said this many times.

individuals in iran will not always come forth with their real names. they will be put in jail, or even killed if the accusations a true/harsh enough. they can not speak as freely as we can here.

these are good questions. whether or not they imply the US has been wrong, it still makes the brain work. it mke speople find out for themselves if this is true or not.

dude, stop speaking on this topic, you have no idea how to respond like an educated individual. moooooooooooo

i *honestly* can't believe you're responding to my very legitimate question in the manner you did. my question is not only valid, it should be an obvious requirement PRIOR to repeating unsubstantiated/unattributed material. if this had been "several unnamed presidents from unnamed anonymous US universities..." i would have asked the same question. especially these days with the internet and anybody being able to post anything -- where's the confirmation that it's truly legit? that's all i want.


where it comes from has nothing to do with the fact these are thought provoking questions. questions do not require legitimacy. this is not hard to figure it out.

once more...... if these people come out with their names they face persecution for it. try and understand the iranian people for once. go read something


jesterx99 wrote:
i agree with Perv,


jesterx99 wrote:
ALL YOUR MOM'S ARE BELONG TO ME!!!
PERverSIAN
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PostPosted: 03 Oct 2007 01:21:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phy wrote:
PERverSIAN wrote:
dude, stop speaking on this topic, you have no idea how to respond like an educated individual. moooooooooooo


Educated. Hm. Perhaps you can point us to what an educated individual looks like, then, because I'm not seeing it in your responses, either.

Keep it civil, Perv, if you're at all interested in winning any kind of mindshare at all.


where was this when bluto called me an idiot?!?!?!?!??!?!!!! maybe it was the 'sir' that made it civil. its like a political circle jerk in here. you said it yourself a while back Phy, i have a perspective that i can show that most cant, and i thought i was trying to do that.

dude you're right phy. i am sorry.

all my responses require me to first prove what i am saying isnt stupid, then it can be addressed????? thats if i a dont have to prove i am not an idiot before proving the people i quote arent idiots, THEN i can get a debate out of it??????

oh yeah, and jester of course has very highly educated responses which much civility. shame on me, i will follow his example in my next post.


jesterx99 wrote:
i agree with Perv,


jesterx99 wrote:
ALL YOUR MOM'S ARE BELONG TO ME!!!
jesterx99
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PostPosted: 03 Oct 2007 04:20:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PERverSIAN wrote:
oh yeah, and jester of course has very highly educated responses which much civility. shame on me, i will follow his example in my next post.


whoa whoa... guess i'll keep my attempts (though immature at times) at keeping a little brevity in all this iran/america, bush/ahmanijehad, islam/christian debacle to a minimum

perv i have a lot of respect for you and your views, mainly cuz i know you outside utgamers, but yeah, i'm gonna rag on you as much as you rag on me or anyone else on here... but after everything is said and done, just because you have a different from mine, doesn't mean i'm going to want to kick your ass or think of you as a total and complete idiot... just a partial idiot Very Happy

and in about a month and a half, i'm going to be over there in the arab world for nearly a year. so maybe when i come back, i'll have some what more of a perspective on the topic at hand. granted it's not Iran, but i think Qatar is close enough.

on another note, all this week my company sent me to a Middle East Orientation Course (MEOC) for pre-deployment training. all week for 9 hours a day i've been learning about the various cultures, history, religion, ethnic diversity of EVERY country in the Middle East and South East Asia... basically the majority of countries within the sphere of influence of Islam. which just so happens to be my battalion's AOO (area of operations) which is apart of CENTCOM (central command). this orientation course is mandatory for everyone going over for deployment. and the main focus of this class has been getting us (americans) to drop our cultural bias and social bubble and start to think things through the mind set of the culture and people of our AOO. in my opinion (of course i'm biased), i think the army is going through great lengths to understand and know the people and be respectful of their cultures and ways.
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PostPosted: 03 Oct 2007 05:53:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PERverSIAN wrote:
once more...... if these people come out with their names they face persecution for it. try and understand the iranian people for once. go read something


what i dont understand about what you keep saying here is that these questions by the Iranian University Chancellors are in support of the president of iran. how could they face persecution by the government of iran if they are posing questions that support ahmadinejad?

again ill say the questions themselves may have legitamacy on some level if addressed to the correct persons, in this case they are questions regarding our nations policy over the last x number of years, they should, as bluto mentioned be addressed to the policy/decision makers not the president of a university. while bollinger's questions were directed at a man who has impact on policy in his nation, bollinger did not address this to the iranian nations university chancellors, because it would be rediculous since they too have no bearing on policy.

the questions in this context come off as just a weak attempt to misdirect ppls attention off of iranian policy, which was the entire point of allowing him to visit the university.


You know Tom Hanks, Forrest Gump. Slow, yes. Retarded, maybe. Braces on his legs. But he charmed the pants off Nixon and he won a ping-pong competition? That ain’t retarded.

You went full retard, man. Never go full retard.
WK
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PostPosted: 03 Oct 2007 06:38:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and just to be clear perv im not piling on, just pointing out my pov. youre a good friend so i dont wanna splash the pot thats clearly your job and i cant touch you on that Wink

You know Tom Hanks, Forrest Gump. Slow, yes. Retarded, maybe. Braces on his legs. But he charmed the pants off Nixon and he won a ping-pong competition? That ain’t retarded.

You went full retard, man. Never go full retard.
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PostPosted: 03 Oct 2007 10:51:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i know where you two (jester and WK i mean) are comingl from. i have been good friends with you both for a number of years now, and that is in no way questioned. i LMFAO at jesters post becasue i know where hes coming from. i know its him joking with me.

hell your in my top friends on myspace. that has to speak for something, lol Razz

and gl btw on your adventures abraod bro. all the best with you and family.

my question is WTF is Phy talking about when he tells ME to be civil after all the shit i have to take? this is pointless. i dont mind being the stand alone on this topic, but when i get berated i wont take it. i dont give a shit who its from.

i love a good debate on issues, but my 'unique' perspective is obviously going to have a 5 second shelf life here.

Bluto can bag on me all day and Phy just sits there waiting for me to respond for myself so he can tell me to back off?

peace out guys. its been fun.
Phy
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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2007 01:59:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PERverSIAN wrote:
my question is WTF is Phy talking about when he tells ME to be civil after all the shit i have to take? this is pointless. i dont mind being the stand alone on this topic, but when i get berated i wont take it. i dont give a shit who its from.

i love a good debate on issues, but my 'unique' perspective is obviously going to have a 5 second shelf life here.

Bluto can bag on me all day and Phy just sits there waiting for me to respond for myself so he can tell me to back off?


And here I thought you might actually be interesting.

You are a fool. What did you think you were going to accomplish, here?

That's the problem - you didn't think. You were so angry that you started arguments instead of debates, and gave is vitriol and invective instead of your calm, considered foreign opinion.

When you start a genuine debate, it's not about being right, it's about being wise, and frankly, you were neither. As a local, you can win an argument and win respect. As a foreigner, it's hard enough to achieve just one or the other. You did neither, and it was pointless and it was stupid. I expect better of the vaunted clever persian.

Let me perfectly clear - you are an idiot. I didn't sit and wait for you to trip up. You have a genuine nerve if you think you are important enough to me for me to lay in wait just to slap you down.

I kind of like you, and I tend to stick up for the underdog. If you for a moment think that I have it out for you in any way, you have a greatly inflated sense of your importance in my daily life. I merely wanted to see if you had it in you to overcome your youth and naivete to patiently and adequately convey your unique perspective to people from a country not of your birth. I was even willing to help you along on occasion with a gentle admonition here and there to help you accomplish your own stated goal. That you failed is not on me, it's on you, and to in any way suggest I had it out for you reveals your complete lack of understanding of my interests and my motives. Your failure is complete.

The best way to win people to your perspective is patiently, rationally, deliberately. You jumped into foreign waters without thinking, without a plan, without self-control, and when the locals didn't automatically agree, you leapt straight from passion to sheer stupidity, for that's all it can be called.

I'm going to give you one last thing to chew on should you again pop your head into straight territory. If you're in your enemy's throne room, you can either start an argument that you cannot win, or you can use subtlety and winsome logic to win mindshare. Pick one - you cannot have both. A clever man, a wise man, considers his objective before he says a thing or writes a word. Will you be clever? Are you, in fact, wise?

Only time will tell. I genuinely wish you well. I promise you, however, that I will not think about you again for the rest of my life, and that's on you. You have nothing interesting to arouse my interest in your way of thinking, your way of life, or your heritage, and that's the greatest tragedy of all.



Edit: What a load of crap, right? Yes, this what I really feel. But if you stop there, you miss the truth, for it's not what I really think, and thinking trumps mere emotion every time. Or should. Somebody has been watching too much House, I think. Wink

This post was deliberate posturing on my part, a wordsmith's trick to leave an impression. And now that I have your attention, please listen well, for this really the only thing I've tried to convey all along:

I want you, Perv, to think, really /think/, about the very real gift you have, being a representative of a foreign culture to America. You can genuinely impact the world with your perspective if you don't try to force it. Give your opinion and then leave some room for opposing opinion. Real debate isn't arguing, it is stating a logical case and then being open to another perspective.

On the other hand, you can't change one opinion if you lose your cool. The more you shout at those who don't understand, the less they understand you. I've been married long enough to attest to that. Wink

So much of the problem that I see with your posts were the waste of a potentially interesting and educational perspective. Instead of trying to be a bridge to those of us who didn't understand your culture or way of thinking, you increasingly resorted to mindless flailing away. That's kid stuff, and it's a waste of your time and ours.

I really do think you are capable of interesting insights, and I will always wonder if you were able to harness them and use them for something productive.

And that's the God's honest truth.


Johne (Phy) Cook | Overlord, Ray Gun Revival
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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2007 09:42:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just to add something in real quick... yesterday at our little army class on the middle east, we spent 5 hours on Iran and it's history, culture, and political/religious ups and downs. the presentation was given by an Iranian-born man. Now did he choose to go in there and berate pres bush and say how america is doing this and this and this. or did he go in there calmly and state the cold hard facts about Iran from his perspective as an Iranian. After his presentation we had an hour long open discussion from our (military) perspective directed towards the presenters. I really enjoyed the class and learned a lot about Iran. Ahmadenijad (sorry i forgot how to spell his name) like Perv says is a complete and totally useless object in Iran's never ending Checks & Balance system. The Grand Ayatollah oversees the Pres while the never used Assembly of Experts (86 islamic 'experts') oversee the Grand Ayatollah and are supposed to be critical of his Islamic leadership. The Iranian regime claims it has a democratic govt but really what it is, is a Theocracy... lead and governed by Islam with the disguise of a real democracy. the only thing elected by the people is the pres, and the only thing he is, is a puppet. and the only reason he made it to power was on the promise of making the daily life of the iranian people better, not because of nuclear power or any of that crap. he started acting on that AFTER he was elected. i'll tell more later on, right now i'm late for morning PT!!! gotta go....
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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2007 03:27:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jesterx99 wrote:
just to add something in real quick... yesterday at our little army class on the middle east, we spent 5 hours on Iran and it's history, culture, and political/religious ups and downs. the presentation was given by an Iranian-born man. Now did he choose to go in there and berate pres bush and say how america is doing this and this and this. or did he go in there calmly and state the cold hard facts about Iran from his perspective as an Iranian. After his presentation we had an hour long open discussion from our (military) perspective directed towards the presenters. I really enjoyed the class and learned a lot about Iran. Ahmadenijad (sorry i forgot how to spell his name) like Perv says is a complete and totally useless object in Iran's never ending Checks & Balance system. The Grand Ayatollah oversees the Pres while the never used Assembly of Experts (86 islamic 'experts') oversee the Grand Ayatollah and are supposed to be critical of his Islamic leadership. The Iranian regime claims it has a democratic govt but really what it is, is a Theocracy... lead and governed by Islam with the disguise of a real democracy. the only thing elected by the people is the pres, and the only thing he is, is a puppet. and the only reason he made it to power was on the promise of making the daily life of the iranian people better, not because of nuclear power or any of that crap. he started acting on that AFTER he was elected. i'll tell more later on, right now i'm late for morning PT!!! gotta go....


Worth mentioning as well that everybody in the Majles (or basically the Iranian parliament) has to be approved by Khomeini and his Expediency Council. It's not like just anybody can run for office. Your ideas and your political standing have to be approved before you can even hope to be on a ticket.




dude
Sephirrrrrrrrrroth says:
i'm crying
Sephirrrrrrrrrroth says:
i just put aftershave on my nuts
jesterx99
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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2007 04:23:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CloakedKilla wrote:
jesterx99 wrote:
just to add something in real quick... yesterday at our little army class on the middle east, we spent 5 hours on Iran and it's history, culture, and political/religious ups and downs. the presentation was given by an Iranian-born man. Now did he choose to go in there and berate pres bush and say how america is doing this and this and this. or did he go in there calmly and state the cold hard facts about Iran from his perspective as an Iranian. After his presentation we had an hour long open discussion from our (military) perspective directed towards the presenters. I really enjoyed the class and learned a lot about Iran. Ahmadenijad (sorry i forgot how to spell his name) like Perv says is a complete and totally useless object in Iran's never ending Checks & Balance system. The Grand Ayatollah oversees the Pres while the never used Assembly of Experts (86 islamic 'experts') oversee the Grand Ayatollah and are supposed to be critical of his Islamic leadership. The Iranian regime claims it has a democratic govt but really what it is, is a Theocracy... lead and governed by Islam with the disguise of a real democracy. the only thing elected by the people is the pres, and the only thing he is, is a puppet. and the only reason he made it to power was on the promise of making the daily life of the iranian people better, not because of nuclear power or any of that crap. he started acting on that AFTER he was elected. i'll tell more later on, right now i'm late for morning PT!!! gotta go....


Worth mentioning as well that everybody in the Majles (or basically the Iranian parliament) has to be approved by Khomeini and his Expediency Council. It's not like just anybody can run for office. Your ideas and your political standing have to be approved before you can even hope to be on a ticket.


yep i was going to mention that... also the guy who just got elected the head of the Assembly of Experts ( i forget his name but he ran against ahmadenijad ) and he is pro-american. he is now in the position to put pressure against the ayatollah for the first time ever if he can get the majority.
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